Siegel got shut out by Brian. Anderle told Gaines he got fed up with
Brian's unprofessional behavior. Vosse left to help organize Monterey Pop
Fest. My read is that Parks "left" because he was done as the lyricist, he
hitched his wagon to Waronker and he felt Brian was domineering and Brian's
personal and professional behavior didn't sit well. Parks "quit" because of his
and Brian's divergent artistic sensibilities which was reinforced by the
other Boys' siding with Brian and he already had a contract with Warners
anyway. That's my interpretation anyway.
I think they all were sincere, even if it would further their careers,
and wanted to be helpful and still do respect Brian and his talent very
much but bottom line they didn't hang. Like Chuck Britz said, Brian would take
input from anyone, his dad, the Boys, collaborators, even guys off the
street, but Brian always went with or back to what Brian already knew he wanted in
the first place, inspite of any input. That must be what happened with
SMiLE, Brian tried it and *he* didn't like it, period, end of story, because
if he had it would have been released to Brian's liking despite any "input"
from any quarter. Instead Brian went on to Smiley, which was also all
Brian's show with only suggestions from the Boys which Brian would try but only
kept if it served what he already wanted. No one got Brian to do or not to
do what Brian did or didn't want to do musically, not in 1966 and 67
anyway. I think? [breathing hard and sweating]
------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:48:41 -0500
> The myth has it that there was tension between the Beach Boys versus
My read is the Posse "thought" the Boys didn't approve of them much but
that
feeling was based on impression from next to no contact with most of
the
Boys. The Boys they did get to know they liked. Anderle had contact and
he
liked the Boys and thought they were as cool as anyone on the "scene"
and
found they had tastes and goals in common according to the
Anderle/Williams
interview.
> My general question is: on average, how long had each of these people
Somebody may know better but here is my take at the moment. Anderle
apparently occasionally began showing up at Pet Sounds sessions
bringing
along Hutton and Parks around February or March '66. Anderle would
occasionally take visitors, such as Parks, to Brian's house through
that
Summer. Vosse and Siegel got brought around in late September/October.
I'm
not sure about Robbins but I believe his connection is through his
association with Parks. Somars was Anderle's pal and Parks' lawyrer.
The
Posse were all longtime friends to each other but didn't really have a
prior
friendship with Brian. Not even through Loren Schwartz, Schwartz and
Brian
were longtime friends but Brian was almost never present, and never
very
long, at Schwartz's "salons" were the others would mingle.
None of them were really "tight" with Brian until the Fall of '66. I
think
Parks job was over by early November and he went his own way and
visited
Brian only a few times after that at the studio that Winter and Spring
until
March '67. I don't have a sense that Robbins was around long after
Parks
left in the Fall of '66 but at least until Nov 16. Siegel was gone
before
the end of 1966. Anderle was gone in late April or early May '67. Vosse
left
before Anderle in March or April '67 but continued to have some contact
with
Brian until the beach Boys cancelled out of the
music-festival-whose-name-I've-forgotten.
> But Anderle himself made an interesting statement in the
Maybe Anderle was speaking from his own youthful self-centered folly
believing Brian had no foundation without them, when in fact Brian's
foundation was the same before, during and after them, in my opinion.
------------------------------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 14:14:46 -0000
I want to take a look at what might be misconstrued as heresy in
pro-Brian circles re SMILE:
The myth has it that there was tension between the Beach Boys versus
the Vosse Posse.
My general question is: on average, how long had each of these people
in the Posse really 'known' Brian? Ultimately, a lot of these
friendships/business teamings disintegrated, but I guess I'm trying to
figure out to what end certain people really were able to speak as if
they 'knew' Brian and 'knew' what he needed best, in apparent
contradiction to the Beach Boys.
Take for instance David Anderle - has Cam documented the beginning and
endpoint of that association?
and that having been said, it boils down to:
were these friendships substantive enough and genuine enough to have
stood for something beyond (a) people who wanted to be near a Genius
and smoke free hash, (b) and/or who wanted to use the Genius to
advance their careers.
I'm trying to figure out (as I wrestle with these thoughts and
questions) just how detrimental or beneficial these 'friends' were.
Intellectually, they were alleged saviors -- giving Brian books,
rapping about philosophy, heavy talks in the pool, etc.
But Anderle himself made an interesting statement in the
Anderle/Williams interviews, of which I'll loosely paraphrase: "When
we left, there was nothing there to catch him, no foundation."
What I'm getting at is: were these people "fair-weather friends", the
sort that Brian indicted on PET SOUNDS?
Did The Posse let Brian down?
(I attribute mistakes to youthful folly, immaturity, $, and dope.)
Thoughts?
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 06:27:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Vosse Posse OR Summertime Friends?
Subject: Re:Vosse Posse OR Summertime Friends?
> the Vosse Posse.
> in the Posse really 'known' Brian? Ultimately, a lot of these
> friendships/business teamings disintegrated, but I guess I'm trying
to
> figure out to what end certain people really were able to speak as if
> they 'knew' Brian and 'knew' what he needed best, in apparent
> contradiction to the Beach Boys.
> Take for instance David Anderle - has Cam documented the beginning
and
> endpoint of that association?
> Anderle/Williams interviews, of which I'll loosely paraphrase: "When
> we left, there was nothing there to catch him, no foundation."
> What I'm getting at is: were these people "fair-weather friends", the
> sort that Brian indicted on PET SOUNDS?
> Did The Posse let Brian down?
> (I attribute mistakes to youthful folly, immaturity, $, and dope.)
> Thoughts?
Subject: Vosse Posse OR Summertime Friends?